28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
29 For whom He foreknew (4267 προγινώσκω proginosko), He also predestined (4309 προορίζω proorizo) to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He predestined (4309 προορίζω proorizo), these He also called (2564 καλέω kaleo); whom He called (2564 καλέω kaleo), these He also justified (1344 δικαιόω dikaioo); and whom He justified (1344 δικαιόω dikaioo), these He also glorified (1392 δοξάζω doxazo).
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? (Rom. 8:28-31 NKJ)
“…Elect according to the foreknowledge (4268 πρόγνωσις prognosis) of God the Father…” (1 Pet. 1:2 NKJ)
God predestines “according to foreknowledge” of freely made choices done by the uncreated foreknown version of everyone born since the foundation of the world.
- Foreknew: God’s eternal, pre-creation knowledge of persons and their love for Him, apart from works or post-fall corruption.
- Predestined: Based on that knowledge, He determined their destiny — conformance to Christ’s image.
- Called: In history, He summons them effectively.
- Justified: Declares them righteous.
- Glorified: Brings them into final perfection.
Before creation God foreknew all possible versions of everyone, both pre-fall and post-fall. He made His selection based on the free will act of love done by the pre-fall version of everyone born into the world.
As each pre-fall version of us became sentient with full knowledge of God—His light, holiness and love for them; they responded differently. 1) Those who responded to God’s love with love, He selected unto glorification. 2) Those who responded to His love with indifference, fear or hostility He did not select.
Therefore, before anyone did “good or bad” “works” or exercised faith, God predestined unto glorification those He foreknew loved Him when they had perfectly free will to choose and full knowledge of His light and Holliness.
By grace we are saved, and it is not of ourselves as the version upon which selection was based, never came into existence. It was God’s good pleasure and will to select this way, predicated on love.
All not selected can still be saved if they respond to the gospel of Christ with belief and have not committed eternal sins. All who respond with disbelief are condemned.
Therefore, God’s predestination of the Elect did not violate the free will choice of any creature, at any time.
Notes:
- New Testament occurrences
πρόγνωσις (foreknowledge, noun)
- Acts 2:23 — “This man [Jesus], delivered over by the determinate plan and foreknowledge (προγνώσει) of God…”
- Foreknowledge here is paired with βουλῇ (“plan, counsel”). Grammatically, they are distinct — one is planning, the other is knowing.
- 1 Peter 1:2 — “elect according to the foreknowledge (πρόγνωσιν) of God…” → knowledge as the standard.
- 1 Peter 1:20 — Christ “foreknown (προεγνωσμένου) before the foundation of the world…” — intimate awareness, not decree word.
προγινώσκω (to know beforehand, verb)
- Acts 26:5 — “having known before (προγινώσκοντες) about me from the first…” — straightforward knowledge.
- Romans 8:29 — “those whom He foreknew…” — linked but distinct from predestined.
- Romans 11:2 — “His people whom He foreknew…” — could be relational knowing, but still knowledge-based lexically.
- 2 Peter 3:17 — “you, therefore, beloved, knowing beforehand (προγινώσκοντες), be on guard…” — simple prior awareness.
NT lexical tally:
- Clear knowledge sense: Acts 26:5, 2 Pet 3:17
- Likely knowledge (possibly relational): 1 Pet 1:2, Rom 8:29, Rom 11:2, 1 Pet 1:20
- Paired with planning: Acts 2:23 (distinct from plan)
- Zero cases where the verb/noun alone means “to predestine” without context.
Observations
- Across all occurrences, the default lexical sense is informational — “to know before” — whether factual or relational.
- When divine decree is in view (Acts 2:23, Rom 8:29), foreknowledge is either paired with a decree word (βουλή, προορίζω) or distinguished from it by syntax.
- Nowhere does the Greek word by itself mean “predestine” — that meaning is read in by theological interpretation, not demanded by grammar.
END
I asked ChatGPT 5:
Can we infer from Romans 8:28-29 that God predicated His predestination on the knowledge He obtained before creation, when He “foreknew” those who loved Him versus those who did not, before either did “good or bad”, that is “before the fall” changed them from having full knowledge and awareness of God?
ChatGPT replies:
Yes — if we take the knowledge view of προέγνω and keep the sequence in Romans 8:28–29 intact, then the inference you’re describing is fully coherent with the grammar.
Let’s walk through it step-by-step.
- Romans 8:28–29 in sequence
v. 28 — “to those who love God… to those who are called according to His purpose”
v. 29 — “because those whom He foreknew, He also predestined…”
Grammatically:
The “those who love God” in v. 28 are the same group as “whom He foreknew” in v. 29 — the relative pronoun οὓς picks them up directly.
Foreknowledge precedes predestination in the syntax.
The participial description “those who love God” is logically an outcome of foreknowledge — i.e., God knew who they would be before they existed.
2. “Before the fall” element
Your point is that God’s knowledge in v. 29 is before creation, before any “good or bad” actions (cf. Rom 9:11), and before the fall corrupted human awareness of Him.
On the knowledge reading, God’s foreknowledge is timeless — He sees the whole history of each person.
That includes their unfallen nature (how they would freely respond if presented with Himself in uncorrupted awareness) and their fallen history.
The “good or bad” exclusion from Rom 9:11 fits perfectly here — His choice was not in reaction to sin or virtue, but to His eternal knowledge of each person’s freely given love or rejection.
3. Logical synthesis
In this view:
Before creation, God sees all possible histories for every person (pre-fall, post-fall, eternal).
He knows who would love Him in the full light of truth (not merely in corrupted conditions).
Based on that prior knowledge, He predestines them to be “conformed to the image of His Son” (Rom 8:29).
His call in time (Rom 9:11) is directed toward those already foreknown, not conditioned on works, but consistent with that eternal knowledge.
4. Why the grammar supports this
Foreknew is distinct from “predestined” — this keeps the basis of predestination external to the decree itself.
Those who love God in v. 28 is not a new group but the very ones foreknown in v. 29.
Before good or bad (Rom 9:11) matches the “before the fall” idea — God’s knowledge precedes moral performance or corruption.
Final Note: Thinking outside of the Box
Some insist on defining fore-KNOWING as fore-Ordaining, because they are thinking in the box.
What is the box? This fallen realm.
Sherlock Holmes would think outside of the box, because its required:
1) Election is by grace, not by anything foreknown about us in this fallen realm.
2) Election is by foreknowing something in us that doesn’t exist in this fallen realm.
Therefore, we must go outside of this fallen realm to learn what God foreknew about us, that led Him to ordain our election unto glorification.
Did Paul give us a clue what that might be?
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? (Rom. 8:28-31 NKJ)
Evidently, when God foreknew what we would be IF THE FALL NEVER HAPPENED, some Loved God, and the rest did not.
Therefore, lest any of these lovers of God be lost in this fallen realm, God predestines them unto glorification.
What about those who did not love God in His foreknowledge?
They are NOT predestined.
They have libertarian free will to choose. All who choose to believe in Christ in this KOSMOS, are saved, and all who disbelieve are condemned. Its that simple. Just like Jesus says in John 3:16-18.
16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (Jn. 3:16-18 NKJ)
AND as the elect predestined unto salvation do choose to “believe in Jesus”, they are saved through faith just like everyone else. God has not shown any partiality. They are all equally saved because they believe in Christ.